It's funny to see this since I've launched Developers vs. Marketing this week - a marketing agency solely focused on working with tech founders.
I have often witnessed developers starting to market their creations way too late (or hoping that a single Product Hunt launch will be sufficient). Marketing is a complicated process that should begin with the first line of code.
I plan to create more content on IH this month to address this problem - I think too many devs miss entirely the fact that marketing is damn complicated, especially for tech minds! And no matter how brilliant their startups are - they need someone to see it!
Your website looks cool indeed. I have to ponder for a while -- basically, I need to get a side job first to afford it, but yeah, I think I would take you up on your offer.
Being a hard core developer, this is insanely hard for me! I've tried it before, but I just couldn't do it! I even hired someone else (twice) to do marketing -- and that was a total flop!
So, my solution is just what you advise against😁I set up a list of features, and once I'm done with that (to read: one week from now), I'll be doing marketing full time for at least 3-4 months.
The cool part about the features I've build is that they compound big time. So my next step is to come up with video ideas and create 1-2 videos per day. Then, publish to twitter, tiktok, insta reels, facebook.
P.S.
for the last few features, I've done some videos on twitter
reddit just doesn't work for me. I've had so many posts removed that I simply don't have the energy to try it anymore. Even tried advertising on reddit - worst channel ever!
Now that I'm near completion of my feature list (obviously, there's a lot more features that I've postponed), I'm much calmer than before -- I used to be so depressed knowing there's so much more work to be done, and I was always behind.
Do you know that people even want all those features you're spending time building?
They might - but there's an overwhelming chance that no one will care if you haven't validated your idea and promoted the concept at all.
That's the great danger of building this way.
However, what I'm working on (a video editing app) has been validated and revalidated a thousand times over.
It's beyond hard to find "early users" with a simple MVP. People don't even give you the time of day.
There are sooo many apps out there (and some even free), that if I don't stand out (features + speed), I feel like I don't stand a chance.
So basically all the features I'm building are with a "long term view" in mind. For instance, I've developed an "animate char-by-char" feature (really big feature, that is). Based on this, I can make an endless amount of presentation videos which will show the power of my app. Also, I can create templates based on this feature, so people can use what I do with a single click.
Current feature I'm building (should have a demo on twitter in 1 hour or so) is the ability to create an instagram like conversation on top of your video.
And the final feature -- effects + transitions -- which is something every decent video editor app has (note: I already have these, but I built them a looong time ago, and they because obsolete. so i need to redo them based on what I currently have). Once this is done, I can have video editors create awesome effects + transitions and integrate them into the app.
I hear ya. I'm building something B2C, in a pretty crowded space, which is completely my own fault. But I think it means that the super lean MVPs, or marketing before development just won't work. The users I'm targeting already have plenty of options. Now obviously I wouldn't do this if I didn't think I can bring something different to the table, but I've spent more than 6 months (full time 80%) just doing the R&D necessary for what I want to do, only recently starting to develop the actual application (which thankfully is quite light in comparison).
I'm sure the author's approach works in many cases still, but it's not 2014 anymore. Maybe the key is to NOT pick a crowded space, and definitely not B2C, but the heart wants what it wants, doesn't it? :)
Yeah, agree with you 100% 😁You don't wanna know much I've spent on my app😁
Yeah, that's the thing -- when you're in a crowded space, it's a completely different ball game.
And you know it too -- users have plenty of options, so you need a way to stand out.
This is not always true. My experience with Marketers is that they tend to rely a lot on Hindsight to make their point. If they see failure, they tend to say well if you only did xyz, you would have made it. On the other hand if another company/product did exactly what they recommend and fail, they will find a way to point to something else. It is hard for them to own up to anything that does not work.
The way I see it is this: Marketers like to say developers are wrong about everything. Developers shun marketers for the most part and often think that they impede progress
Neither side is 100% right or wrong.
I've seen it happened for developers who built products, launched it with success without following any of this marketing stuff. I also know developers who built products, launched it and failed to attract any audience or paying members because of the way they market they products/services. When you can achieve success w/o marketing, it's hard to get you pulled into it. On the other hand, you may be filled with doubts and "whatcouldashoulda" had you better marketed your product if and when your launch fails
The jury is still out on this I guess. But If i were a betting man, my money is on Developers. Hands down! A more appropriate title for the post would have been "Why most Marketers rely on Hindsight to justify everything"
I remember that my first viral tweet was:
Everybody: gets 10000 subscribers/leads that wait for the product launch
Me: gets 10000 lines of code, having 0 leads
@SimonHoiberg - great video. Ultimately it matters very little what you do in marketing if you don't have PMF. Surely there is no point in putting in the effort if what you build does not resonate with customers. The real question is: do you think some people quit prematurely without realising that the have PMF?
It's funny to see this since I've launched Developers vs. Marketing this week - a marketing agency solely focused on working with tech founders.
I have often witnessed developers starting to market their creations way too late (or hoping that a single Product Hunt launch will be sufficient). Marketing is a complicated process that should begin with the first line of code.
I plan to create more content on IH this month to address this problem - I think too many devs miss entirely the fact that marketing is damn complicated, especially for tech minds! And no matter how brilliant their startups are - they need someone to see it!
Your website looks cool indeed. I have to ponder for a while -- basically, I need to get a side job first to afford it, but yeah, I think I would take you up on your offer.
Haha, awesome man. If you need some marketing tips - let me know :)
You're totally right!
And awesome - looking forward to seeing more of this content.
It's something I have great interest in as well.
Hi Simon,
Awesome stuff!
Being a hard core developer, this is insanely hard for me! I've tried it before, but I just couldn't do it! I even hired someone else (twice) to do marketing -- and that was a total flop!
So, my solution is just what you advise against😁I set up a list of features, and once I'm done with that (to read: one week from now), I'll be doing marketing full time for at least 3-4 months.
The cool part about the features I've build is that they compound big time. So my next step is to come up with video ideas and create 1-2 videos per day. Then, publish to twitter, tiktok, insta reels, facebook.
P.S.
It kinda hurts a bit to read, I have to admit 😬
Do you know that people even want all those features you're spending time building?
They might - but there's an overwhelming chance that no one will care if you haven't validated your idea and promoted the concept at all.
That's the great danger of building this way.
Anyway! I wish you the best of luck, of course 🙌
First off, thanks! Second,I know what you mean 😁
However, what I'm working on (a video editing app) has been validated and revalidated a thousand times over.
It's beyond hard to find "early users" with a simple MVP. People don't even give you the time of day.
There are sooo many apps out there (and some even free), that if I don't stand out (features + speed), I feel like I don't stand a chance.
So basically all the features I'm building are with a "long term view" in mind. For instance, I've developed an "animate char-by-char" feature (really big feature, that is). Based on this, I can make an endless amount of presentation videos which will show the power of my app. Also, I can create templates based on this feature, so people can use what I do with a single click.
Current feature I'm building (should have a demo on twitter in 1 hour or so) is the ability to create an instagram like conversation on top of your video.
And the final feature -- effects + transitions -- which is something every decent video editor app has (note: I already have these, but I built them a looong time ago, and they because obsolete. so i need to redo them based on what I currently have). Once this is done, I can have video editors create awesome effects + transitions and integrate them into the app.
I hear ya. I'm building something B2C, in a pretty crowded space, which is completely my own fault. But I think it means that the super lean MVPs, or marketing before development just won't work. The users I'm targeting already have plenty of options. Now obviously I wouldn't do this if I didn't think I can bring something different to the table, but I've spent more than 6 months (full time 80%) just doing the R&D necessary for what I want to do, only recently starting to develop the actual application (which thankfully is quite light in comparison).
I'm sure the author's approach works in many cases still, but it's not 2014 anymore. Maybe the key is to NOT pick a crowded space, and definitely not B2C, but the heart wants what it wants, doesn't it? :)
Yeah, agree with you 100% 😁You don't wanna know much I've spent on my app😁
Yeah, that's the thing -- when you're in a crowded space, it's a completely different ball game.
And you know it too -- users have plenty of options, so you need a way to stand out.
This is not always true. My experience with Marketers is that they tend to rely a lot on Hindsight to make their point. If they see failure, they tend to say well if you only did xyz, you would have made it. On the other hand if another company/product did exactly what they recommend and fail, they will find a way to point to something else. It is hard for them to own up to anything that does not work.
The way I see it is this: Marketers like to say developers are wrong about everything. Developers shun marketers for the most part and often think that they impede progress
Neither side is 100% right or wrong.
I've seen it happened for developers who built products, launched it with success without following any of this marketing stuff. I also know developers who built products, launched it and failed to attract any audience or paying members because of the way they market they products/services. When you can achieve success w/o marketing, it's hard to get you pulled into it. On the other hand, you may be filled with doubts and "whatcouldashoulda" had you better marketed your product if and when your launch fails
The jury is still out on this I guess. But If i were a betting man, my money is on Developers. Hands down! A more appropriate title for the post would have been "Why most Marketers rely on Hindsight to justify everything"
What you say is true but the real reason founders fail at marketing is because they don’t have a strategy and jump from tactic to tactic.
@lindamiles
I remember that my first viral tweet was:
Everybody: gets 10000 subscribers/leads that wait for the product launch
Me: gets 10000 lines of code, having 0 leads
Haha - it emphasizes it quite well, yes 😁
@SimonHoiberg - great video. Ultimately it matters very little what you do in marketing if you don't have PMF. Surely there is no point in putting in the effort if what you build does not resonate with customers. The real question is: do you think some people quit prematurely without realising that the have PMF?