How successful was your hiring experience on Upwork, Fiverr, etc?
I’m building a start-up in the recruitment space and I'm curious to understand the challenges entrepreneurs face with hiring through different freelancing platforms.
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I've hired many people off of UpWork with great success. The key is having a good hiring and filtering process. I will pick the top 3-5 candidates and give them a paid take home task (with a budget and time constraint). Whoever does it the best/within time/etc (multiple factors in play usually) will get the gig.
I agree with the point about having a good hiring and filtrating process. But how do you pick the top 3-5 candidates? By rating/price?
I have a blog post on how I do it, but I can't post links yet (not enough karma yet). Just google this: donn felker + How To Hire Outsourced Developers
In short, they have to reply a certain way. For example, somewhere in the job post I'll put something like this:
"When replying, please include the words 'burnt toast' in your reply to show me that you've read this job posting. If you do not include this in your reply, I will automatically decline your job posting due to not following directions."
This shows they are reading the job post. This is not meant to be rude or controlling, or anything like that. I do this because most applications are mass applying to jobs and not reading jobs (I've been hiring on UpWork since 2006 when it was oDesk and its been a constant problem since then).
If they don't include these words, they're automatically declined (this filters out about 80-85% of the applicants). Based upon that 15-20% that are left, I'll look at their profiles, links they send and their replies. I'll then go with the ones that look the best for the job at hand. I'll choose 3-5 of those and pay them for their time to do the take home task.
It's a process, but it works great.
That's very smart, can I ask what's the average project budget in this case?
The budget for the take home task is usually 1-2 hours of work. So 1-2 hours of their rate. Depends on what the task is. Example, a developer might be more than a typesetter, etc.
Some have been in the hundreds of dollars, others have been 10-40K range.
I pretty much do the same and have had good success with it too. Upwork takes a lot of heat but I’m not sure id have a successful business without them.
I feel the same way. Lots of opportunity with TONS of great talent. I have hired my entire team from UpWork. I have video editors (for my YT videos), audio editor/producer (for my podcast), developers (Rails, Android, JS, etc), Designers (for html and designers), HTML and CSS folks, and even a Kindle/KDP expert that helped me ship my first self published book last year. I followed this process for all of them and had great success.
In my opinion, as someone who has been an aspiring freelancer on these platforms, the experience is horrible. Just creating an account on Upwork and getting everything set up was enough of a pain for me to avoid the platform entirely and instead look for clients through my network and via cold outreach. It's like they purposely made it difficult to scare people away, and I think they are scaring away the more veteran freelancers like me. From what I can tell, people have mixed results too when it comes from hiring on there. Some people are solid, others aren't. But I suppose thats how it is hiring any freelancer -- you don't really know what you've got until you start working with them.
I definitely can relate to the pain about it taking too much time to set up everything on the platform. I think it might be worse spending all this time to set up and look for clients if you're starting with the freelancing but for veteran freelancers I'd rather go through my network as well.
I haven't had much success on Fiverr. Upwork always gives me good candidates though.
The trouble is I'm always hiring them for clients, and they always want the cheapest options. When they've allowed me to spend a reasonable amount, the talent has been good. Otherwise it's just ok (but better than fiverr).
Pro-tip: End your description with a request like "start your cover letter with the word 'pencil'". That way you can skim through the applicants and pick out the people who read your listing from those who spammed you without reading it.
great tip!
That’s a great tip. I’ve done something similar to that and it’s obvious 9 out of 10 freelancers don’t read the proposal.
It's seriously crazy how many people don't read it.
I have mixed feelings about these platforms and have gotten mixed results.
On one hand you can find top quality, on the other, they constantly try to cut corners.
The nature of the platform from their perspective is too enticing. Finish a gig or two and accept more. They want to finish as soon as possible, and that is often felt and delivered with the work.
If you're open to doing a bit more hands-on and be patient, then these platforms can be a gold mine.
UpWork is great, it’s likely there isn’t enough pain to compete against them as a bootstrapper. That said, niche freelancer marketplaces (with high level placements) are doing well. I did this in the virtual assistant space. Also Shepherd is crushing it. Same with companies like TopTal.
Glad to hear that you had a positive experience. Did you find the candidates from the Upwork reliable in the end?
Yes, 100%. I have spent roughly $500k on UpWork over the years. It’s an amazing product and the contractors are great if you know how to look through the reviews properly.
My experience with Upwork is a bit of a mixed bag.
You can find great people there, but that often requires sifting through tens or hundreds of profiles to invite the right ones and doing multiple job posts in different categories / times to get a good pool of candidates.
Also fairly often specialists in particular areas are poor matches for a startup where you require flexibility in scope of work
I am a professional web designer and working as a full time freelancer in Upwork (Top rated badge) and Fiverr (Level 2). If anyone need me for their, please message me
I had great experience on fiverr but that took some time. I spent some $$ on 5-6 providers before I found my best one.
But as long as you know exactly what you're looking for these places are great to hire.
I first look at the reviews(as anyone does) and then proceed to ask them some in dept 1-2 questions, the questions are such that only people who are very experienced will be able to answer.
And thats when I know if they can do the job or not.
Do you usually get a lot of candidates applying to open positions?
I bought their gigs and then evaluated, I think it depends on what you're hiring for.
I wanted to hire for email server setup so I ordered few installation from few people and then asked them specific questions.
This may not be possible with the position you are looking for so may not work in all cases.
I hired most of my talents on UpWork (around 5K spent in total - graphic / motion and webdesign).
I prefer Upwork above Fiverr because it's just more straightforward to me and feels more credible.
My go to strategy is as follows:
➡ If people reply to me with a video explaining how they would tackle the job that would be a definitive winner for me. Sometimes, I deliberately ask for this.
Hope this helps!
Thank you so much for such a detailed answer. You've mentioned that you thoroughly check candidates' profiles and portfolios. Would you find it useful if for e.g to let them complete a quick assessment to check their skills instead and then review profiles only of the candidates who scored the highest scores?
Depending on the project budget and time constraints I would consider this but I didn't do this up till now.
I would do this as from 5K projects, otherwise I would just cancel the contract and pay a fair amount for the work that has been done. Looking back this is basically somewhat the same principle as you mention but wrapped differently.
I actually have an old post about it. :) Mind that this is an individual experience and should not imply that all Fiverr creators are with the similar quality.
I used fiverr for some video editing related work and we had a low budget. So I picked an average rated editor. unfortunately the output wasnt upto the mark. later I had to pay more to another editor for the same project.
so basically pick only the top rated freelancers if you dont have room for mistakes and are time bound.
Of course, it depends on the nature of the job, but I think it varies as there are a lot of starters who also might be a good and cheaper option but just haven't been using the platform for long enough to have a high ranking and a lot of reviews to become the top-rated freelancer.
I used Fiverr for a few things. Most of them were one-time-only work such as SEO audits or help with privacy or term docs. I also used the service of a web designer from Fiverr. I booked from the same designer four orders, and after that, she stopped answering any of my questions and practically disappeared. From my side, it was meant to be a more long-term relationship than one time.
Today, I consider more help in design & marketing, but I want someone to bounce ideas with and also do the actual work. I think this is the relationship I used during my days as an employee when my colleagues and I consulted with each other on the work of each other.
I think what I am trying to say is that I want to hire freelancers' time, part of it to spend on conversations with me regarding ideas and some of it on doing the actual job.
For example, now I want to work with an SEO freelancer. I already know what I need to fix, but I want more custom help, not a generic one like I can get on Fiverr. Someone that can understand what I wish to and advise and also do some actual work for me
I was looking for someone to design a website for my new business, and I was hoping to find a designer on Upwork. I just wanted someone who could make something that looked good, and I figured I'd be able to find some good options through the site.
Unfortunately, it turned out that Upwork wasn't a great fit for me. First of all, it was really difficult to get in contact with the people who had done similar work on the site. A lot of their websites were down, or they didn't have any active social media accounts. And even when they did have active accounts, they weren't responsive.
I also ended up finding that there were a lot of issues with people overpromising what they could do—especially in terms of turnaround time—and not underdelivering on their promises. I probably spoke with about five different people before I found someone who delivered what they said they would deliver on time and at a fair price.
Next time use tapflow.app
My Experience was good with the fiverr. I had accessed the profile and discussed them my requirements. Once i found the suitable person i asked him to share the sample. When I liked his work I hired him.
My experience wasn't very good. Back in 2015, I was a non-technical founder. The only way I could get anything developed was through outsourcing.
My natural choice was one of the companies like you mentioned. I drafted my requirements carefully; and had several top applicants. I was willing to pay top dollar to get my product developed fast.
I picked up the top-rated agency that had close to 5-star rating.
We finally agreed upon 2 month timeline. The agency assigned a manager and team began working on the product.
I only cared if the product actually did what it was supposed to do. The agency did make a good progress in the first 2 weeks. But it was all a downward journey afterwards.
I asked my friend to review the code - and he was shocked. We received a half-baked, untested but somewhat functional product. It broke as soon as we had about 30 users logged-in simultaneously. The agency didn't respond.
I could have been me.
I could have identified what they were doing if I was a developer myself. I did teach myself programming - and looking at the code agency gave me, I can tell you they did a pathetic job.
As someone who can code now; I am better at recruiting and outsourcing.
It sucks to hear horror stories like yours.
I'm an experienced programmer myself. But I wonder how I'd derisk hiring a developer if I couldn't evaluate their work.
I'd probably focus on believability and incentives.
A rule of thumb to derisk competence is:
I'd avoid buying time (input) and focus on the business outcome or at least ask for a fixed price to align incentives. I'd expect the programmer to be so damn sure they can deliver to guarantee the work: if there are ~bugs~ mistakes they should own them.
I mean, I'm not surprised freelancers bill by the hour: the client takes all the risks, the income is predictable, and there's no need to uncover the business side of things, which takes effort and skills.
In the beginning, I worked like that but I grew tired of it. Being a micromanaged robot doesn't serve anybody well—not me, nor the client.
Once, I was asked to add Italian to a multilanguage application. Being native, I pointed out some mistakes in the translations. They got angry and said I'm not a translator and that I should use their copy. And when they realized I was right, they got angrier, scrambled to get the translators to re-translate, and ordered me to update them immediately. Trust me, I could have done it myself the first time, no translators were needed.
That's why I don't want to work for anymore, I work with. And we both win.
Thank you for an honest story:) That has happened before to non-technical people that I personally know, so you are not alone for sure but I wonder how often non-technical founders struggle with such problem
It's a problem with almost all solo non technical founders.
By personal experience and talking with friends, it feels kind of like a gamble. I'm sure with time you can develop a process to get better talent, but in general there is a big risk of flop.
I think pricing is a key driver - friends that were willing to pay more tell better stories about it, whereas my experience (I had a mostly small projects with small budgets) is not as good.
If I can ask for what jobs did you hire?
A recent one was my personal blog - I wanted it built with Gatsby + put some React elements on it. Nothing complicated, but I had a hard time with the devs on upwork haha.
I've hired freelancers from fiverr, toptal, upwork, freelancer.com, workana, freemance, and probably a few that I'm forgetting.
I've found the platforms easy to use and with plenty of eager talent ready to bid on jobs and get to work.
I've built app prototypes with Toptal-- great experience, but pricey.
I've hired copywriters from freelancer.com-- okay.
I've hired meme lords from fiverr-- meh, more like meme dorks.
I've hired growth hackers from workana-- muy bien.
I've hired designers from Upwork-- okay experience and pricey.
I've hired developers from Freemance-- great price, great attitude, great quality.
The principal/agent problem arises always because the freelancers are just looking to do the least for the most and maintain a quality/exertion ratio that fits the supply/demand curve.
I feel bad for some of the freelancers on the platforms because there is supply from all over the world that puts downward pressure on their pricing power, plus the platforms take a big cut.
I like Freemance-- a new platform out of Cuba-- because the quality is great, the devs are eager, and the price is very low. Full disclosure-- many of the Cuba-based freelancer use Slyk-- the fintech/ecomm platform that I built.
Hope this helps!
Thank you for such a detailed feedback! I've never heard of Freemance, but will check it out:)
I am as an event planner https://www.royalfalconevents.com/ hired few people from Upwork and Fiverr. My experience with them is good so far.
I never had much luck with those types of places. Even with the bidding most of it was a waste of time. I'm pretty sure a good portion don't even read the requirements before bidding. I had people bid only to find out that they couldn't do what was needed or try to charge way over the price they initially bid.
Although I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Those platforms are kind of a race to the bottom and you get what you pay for.
Thank you for your response. I have had around 200 candidates applying one time, and most of them were unqualified as well, it was such a waste of time to review them all, even though in the end we did get a highly qualified employee, much less time could have been spent on screening. The lesson that I learned from that story is to have a good standardized assessment.
I think for software work, it's probably difficult to hire on fiverr. But I guess that depends on why or what you are looking for.
I'd say any decent software engineer, if they want to do a good side gig, it'll cost you $50-75/hr at minimum. Easily starts at $100/hr+. Hence, charge by project/feature/objective makes more sense.
There are plenty of issues hiring freelancer on small project in the long run. They are mostly paid by time and not quality. So over time, you'd just have unmanageable code, which will cost you even more just to get someone to sign up, understand the existing code, and work on it.
I've been on both side and it's not a good story for either side (in terms of software work). I think of it as an introduction platform to get clients and once the relationship is there, it's better to get off the platform... lots of stories, so if you are interested, you can ask me...
I've spent some $100's on Upwork and Fiverr over the past 6 years. Spent time looking for decent talent - reviewing descriptions/profiles, figuring out a few UpWork proposals for writing, and constantly on Fiverr for mostly one-off creative design & logo type work.
On Fiverr, I suspect that there could be gaming going on in their rating/review system. Even 4.8+ star freelancers can produce pretty average stuff. There is (implied) pressure to rate ALL freelancers 5 stars, as they are (mostly) very nice folks. In terms of results, it's hit or miss - so I end up picking one decent design from a handful of gigs.
What I like:
Easy payment systems.
Provides fast access to affordable freelancers.
Fixed price gigs are great for some creative work, like logo designs.
Challenges:
Trust and quality (differentiation) signals are not quite there for me (esp. Fiverr, not yet). I think this is key. At $5 per gig seven years ago, that's not an issue. At $100's per gig today, trust/quality in the review system is crucial I think. Happy to pay more if I know the results will be better/great. But, until then, I might just keep trying a few "lower cost" gigs/freelancers and picking the best result.
State gross price. Over the years, the significant rise in the amount of hidden fees (Fiverr: GST, copyright extras, source file extras, etc.) is adding up and making me uncomfortable. This is almost illegal in some countries (like here in New Zealand) where vendors have to list gross price on their sticker tags.
On top of the platform's service fees, they take too big a cut from the freelancers -including a significant chunk of their "tips" - really?
Best wishes. Go blue and yellow.
What I have also tried is to give small tasks to 2-3 best candidates and then compare their work (if the job is more creative and it's difficult or you can't test hard skills) Regarding the lack of differentiation points, I 100% agree, that's why I'm actually building a product to be able to quickly test candidates and save time with the manual reviewing. Separate thank you for yellow and blue :)
That sounds good. Looking forward to hear more about your product as it comes along. Please take care. Slava U!
We are already in the beta version. If you want to try it out, let me know:)
I might be looking for an app logo to be designed in a few days time or so .. Could that be something suitable for the beta release?
I would love to help with this, but the way our product is designed candidates go through a quick survey to check their skills, and then we send you a detailed report with a ranking of candidates, and valuable metrics ( time spent per question, etc). In the case of the app logo designer, looking at their portfolio might be even more valuable, than letting them go through the survey. But if you want to try the product, I'll be glad to guide you. Moreover, if you will be hiring someone else in the near future I will be glad to help
Ha ha, no worries. Just found the link to your product page / Rekruit.net - tucked away in your most recent post :) . Now I better understand what it does. Will keep in mind for the future. Thanks for sharing & all the best!