B2B and B2C don't matter nearly as much as what problem you solve. Generally, businesses have more problems they need solved and more money with which to pay for solutions. So it makes sense to target businesses. But consumers also have problems they're willing to pay a lot to solve. You just have to pick the right ones.
For example, if you're struggling to get your personal to-do list app off the ground, and people won't pay $1 for it on the app store, that's not because consumers are cheap. It's because you aren't solving a valuable problem for them. These same consumers will spend $800 at a music festival, $100k on a cool car, and $70k/year on college tuition.
Yep high ticket b2b saas is the easiest way to go. Harder then high ticket services like coaching or agencies but still better than b2c. Plus you are dealing with pros who have money and happy to pay for value, not thousands of penny pinching consumers
Oooh yeah — this is quite true. There aren't a whole lot of strictly B2B companies that I can think of as being startup "famous." There are of course a lot of companies that are both B2B and B2C that have attracted great acclaim and success.
Regardless, b2b is obviously the way to go for an indie hacker. Lower costs, lower cost of attracting customers, a generally more willing customer base that wants to improve their business, too. And it's a more natural connection to a founders' network.
The fame aspect of this is interesting. Because first of all, who builds a business to get famous? I guess, that's not part of my agenda. Beyond that, sure B2C generally means more people know your name/product. But B2B often means that important people (aka people in positions of authority, those making decisions, etc) know your name/product. B2C gets you shaking a lot of hands. B2B gets you shaking the ones that really matter (and continue to matter in the future).
Totally agree. Marketing a B2C company is a pain in the ass with no VC money. I started fabform.io as a solo entrepreneur, I should have found a partner and raised proper money. It's a long hard road.
It depends on what factor? I mean, you listed several points but they have nothing to do with the main point of the post which is to "build b2c for fame, b2b for profitability".
That's a really interesting point. You could argue there are several companies that did this..Dropbox maybe? They started as b2c product and slowly added b2b features.
There's probably some wisdom to this. You likely don't need to acquire as many customers in B2B as you do in B2C. Makes it easier for founders who aren't super savvy with marketing/sales to get traction.
I agree with this. I started DrawPool a couple of years ago. It was very easy to get people to visit the site, build up insta profile, get user engagement, even build a discord community with 1000 members.
But there was one big problem, it didn't pay the bills!
I've since put that project on hold to explore B2B ideas that can be more effectively monetized as they don't require as many users to turn a profit.
But for me, it's easier to find B2C ideas, because I experience the problem myself and want to solve them. However for B2B, I feel like I don't have enough domain expertise to come up with a good idea. Any one feel that? If so what your solution?
This is another huge benefit of building a freelance career before trying to launch a product.
If you freelance, you’ll get exposed to certain industries with weird quirks. Eventually you’ll find something that could be useful to an industry and that’ll be a good time to launch your product.
I kind of unintentionally ended up as a B2B product, because other agencies are the ones that can immediately see the value in what I'm offering vs having to convince a client that's probably unfamiliar with the costs associated with design and development work. Literally all of my clients right now are much larger agencies.
I'm currently at a startup that started as a B2C business but all the revenue comes from licensing the product to large B2B customers. Prior to that I was at two other startups which built their brands through B2C but had all or most of their revenue coming from businesses (see: DJI).
Does that mean if you want to build B2C startups. Being active on social media is mandatory? I have observed founders with high MRR are not even active on social media.
Extremely tough to scale B2C without venture capital or other external funding. B2B can be bootstrapped for the longest time without external funding with profitability
You get the fame but also the hate of behalf of your B customers. It's the worst of both worlds in terms of customer relationship, though it combines the stable profitability of B2B with network effects of B2C.
Job Boards (Indeed/LinkedIn/etc). Your real customers are the companies posting jobs, tough most of the users are the candidates. The grief from disgruntled candidates goes mostly to the platforms themselves instead of towards the companies, but these job boards benefit greatly from scale. Of course this depends on how white-labeled the platform is. If you white-label enough, you get out of the way between the Bs and Cs, but it goes more in the regular B2B territory.
Build B2C side projects for the fame of your main B2B project.
I like this, seems like sound advice!
B2B and B2C don't matter nearly as much as what problem you solve. Generally, businesses have more problems they need solved and more money with which to pay for solutions. So it makes sense to target businesses. But consumers also have problems they're willing to pay a lot to solve. You just have to pick the right ones.
For example, if you're struggling to get your personal to-do list app off the ground, and people won't pay $1 for it on the app store, that's not because consumers are cheap. It's because you aren't solving a valuable problem for them. These same consumers will spend $800 at a music festival, $100k on a cool car, and $70k/year on college tuition.
Probably. I believe B2B startups are also easier to grow, you don't need to make millions of people happy.
Yep high ticket b2b saas is the easiest way to go. Harder then high ticket services like coaching or agencies but still better than b2c. Plus you are dealing with pros who have money and happy to pay for value, not thousands of penny pinching consumers
Plus you are dealing with pros who have money and happy to pay for value, not thousands of penny pinching consumers
On point!
Oooh yeah — this is quite true. There aren't a whole lot of strictly B2B companies that I can think of as being startup "famous." There are of course a lot of companies that are both B2B and B2C that have attracted great acclaim and success.
Regardless, b2b is obviously the way to go for an indie hacker. Lower costs, lower cost of attracting customers, a generally more willing customer base that wants to improve their business, too. And it's a more natural connection to a founders' network.
The fame aspect of this is interesting. Because first of all, who builds a business to get famous? I guess, that's not part of my agenda. Beyond that, sure B2C generally means more people know your name/product. But B2B often means that important people (aka people in positions of authority, those making decisions, etc) know your name/product. B2C gets you shaking a lot of hands. B2B gets you shaking the ones that really matter (and continue to matter in the future).
Totally agree. Marketing a B2C company is a pain in the ass with no VC money. I started fabform.io as a solo entrepreneur, I should have found a partner and raised proper money. It's a long hard road.
but your project is also not b2c xD
As always, it depends.
If you are doing mobile apps, it's easier for consumer than b2b I find.
B2B is easier as you'd have more control in your resource allocation to manage the product and the roadmap
B2C is easier to scale but...
again, it really depends on what you are building.
It depends on what factor? I mean, you listed several points but they have nothing to do with the main point of the post which is to "build b2c for fame, b2b for profitability".
Saw an interesting reply in the comments:
Which made me wonder...can you combine doing a B2C thing and then bootstrap a B2B business out of it?
I definitely think so!
Build a successful B2C co
then turn the most-loved part of the operations into a standalone company.
Slack was built this way (minus the successful B2C part, actually!). It was the inter-team comms system to a failed videogame company.
That's a really interesting point. You could argue there are several companies that did this..Dropbox maybe? They started as b2c product and slowly added b2b features.
There are some electrical vehicle companies that have made this approach.
I feel like it'd be more difficult and expensive to create a stalwart consumer brand that could translate to b2b down the road.
Totally agree though that b2b is the way to go for indie hackers. there's simply a wider pool of customers that have more money to regularly spend.
So... what's the conclusion...?
There's probably some wisdom to this. You likely don't need to acquire as many customers in B2B as you do in B2C. Makes it easier for founders who aren't super savvy with marketing/sales to get traction.
You can't do both? Business with fame in the same startup? 🤔
Build startups for fame, business for profitability)
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Totally agree
I agree with this. I started DrawPool a couple of years ago. It was very easy to get people to visit the site, build up insta profile, get user engagement, even build a discord community with 1000 members.
But there was one big problem, it didn't pay the bills!
I've since put that project on hold to explore B2B ideas that can be more effectively monetized as they don't require as many users to turn a profit.
what about ad monetization for DrawPool ?
How many users are using this site ?i can see the potential
I added Google add but the return was negligible. It led me to believe that the site would need a serious amount of visitors to make any money.
Shame because its really fun to work on!
So true
Yeah, that's true!
At the end of a B2B startup, there is always a physical customer.
Just look at the largest companies in the world.
Totally agree.
But for me, it's easier to find B2C ideas, because I experience the problem myself and want to solve them. However for B2B, I feel like I don't have enough domain expertise to come up with a good idea. Any one feel that? If so what your solution?
This is another huge benefit of building a freelance career before trying to launch a product.
If you freelance, you’ll get exposed to certain industries with weird quirks. Eventually you’ll find something that could be useful to an industry and that’ll be a good time to launch your product.
That's why people said, freelancing is a gateway to Indie Hackers :D.
I do have B2B ideas as well related to AI. But I don't have money to start building such stuff. I'm better off with apps.
I kind of unintentionally ended up as a B2B product, because other agencies are the ones that can immediately see the value in what I'm offering vs having to convince a client that's probably unfamiliar with the costs associated with design and development work. Literally all of my clients right now are much larger agencies.
100% agree.
I'm currently at a startup that started as a B2C business but all the revenue comes from licensing the product to large B2B customers. Prior to that I was at two other startups which built their brands through B2C but had all or most of their revenue coming from businesses (see: DJI).
I don't agree.. Some B2B founders are the most self promotional people out there
Does that mean if you want to build B2C startups. Being active on social media is mandatory? I have observed founders with high MRR are not even active on social media.
I am actually making more money with my B2C than when I tried B2B. But I agree, in general is easier to get money from B2B
Your project is not B2C.
why do you say that?
You are selling to prosumers. It's actually in-between B2C and B2B.
Extremely tough to scale B2C without venture capital or other external funding. B2B can be bootstrapped for the longest time without external funding with profitability
Agreed
What about B2B2C?
You get the fame but also the hate of behalf of your B customers. It's the worst of both worlds in terms of customer relationship, though it combines the stable profitability of B2B with network effects of B2C.
Hm, any examples here?
Job Boards (Indeed/LinkedIn/etc). Your real customers are the companies posting jobs, tough most of the users are the candidates. The grief from disgruntled candidates goes mostly to the platforms themselves instead of towards the companies, but these job boards benefit greatly from scale. Of course this depends on how white-labeled the platform is. If you white-label enough, you get out of the way between the Bs and Cs, but it goes more in the regular B2B territory.
I don't think you'll get the "fame" factor here.